Legends Untold

Quick update pre Tabletop Scotland
over 5 years ago – Mon, Aug 27, 2018 at 11:39:17 PM

Hey guys,

a quick update from me before we attend our last convention of the year at Tabletop Scotland in Perth (not the one in Australia - though it's very tempting).

Revised Boxes and Inserts are made
Tabletop Scotland

CAVEAT: Please note the cards with the lightning bolts shown in the photographs are used by the manufacturer to show spacing, they are not part of Legends Untold.

Revised Boxes and Inserts

As per the last update the new boxes and inserts have been increased in depth.
Please note the other dimensions remain the same, this will still be the box on your shelf we showed you before except for a small stretch in one direction, this stretch shows off a little bit more of the cover art. Here is a video from the manufacturer which quickly shows off the new boxes:

As you can see from the photographs below everything should now fit. The first photograph was taken before the box art using a production white box. It has all the punchboards in so you can see it will be a flush fit with all the contents:

 And with the box art added:

 The second photograph shows the new insert (note the increased height to accommodate the sleeves on the poker cards and the extra layer put in to accommodate the double pokers separately).  

Note the Double poker cards shown are unsleeved. Whether you intend to sleeve thse or not I would recommend splitting into both sections to even up the distribution in the box.

The next photograph shows off how you can use the insert to your advantage depending on your sleeving preference (it is of course up to you).

If you do not sleeve: You will be able to use the first two sections to store your adventure and hero decks in respectively, leaving the third section (shown with the lightning bolts) to 'save game' the poker cards used by your heroes.

If you sleeve: You will need all three compartments to store your poker cards because of the additional depth of the sleeves.

 The last photograph gives you a more top down view so you can see the token storage compartments better:

 These samples are being air freighted from China to us (departing tomorrow) and will be checked for size this week with the sleeved cards. If everything fits we can hit the manufacturing button.

Tabletop Scotland
We will be at our last convention of the year this coming weekend in Perth, Scotland.  If you are able to please come by, say hello and see the game.
We will be demoing the Caves set and will be able to show everyone everything for the first time (we did not have the Sewers, Boosters or Dragon Dice at UKGE).

As a special treat we have the first slot on the Sunday to play Legends Untold on a Geeknson table, we think it will be a 'Denns'.  This is exciting for us (to be clear it's not ours) but don't take my word for how cool this is - watch Zee pour water over it in his video! 

So if you'd like to play our grim and gritty heroes with a hint more class our slot on that table is from 10:00 until 11:45 on the Sunday. I reckon we could accommodate up to six of you.

I will let you know the moment the inserts arrive from China folks.

For now I wish you and your families the very best!

Cheers
IG

Hard copy proofing complete, delivery timetable confirmed
over 5 years ago – Thu, Aug 16, 2018 at 12:44:14 AM

1 - Addresses locked down - thank you!
2 - Revised Box Files sent to the manufacturer.
3 - Hard Copy proofing of all three books and all cards now complete.4 - Awaiting revised boxes and rulebooks from manufacturer to sign off.5 - Manufacturing to complete in 50 days of proof sign off (Estimated 20 October 2018).6 - Fulfilment arranged via Gamesquest in the EU and local partners.
7- Delivery anticipated by end of December 2018 (based on 20 October Manufactured date).
8 - Distribution and reviewer interest

Hi guys,
lots to catch you up on in this update.

Addresses locked down, that's it, we now have roughly 3,500 of you locked down and have the files available to pass on to the fulfilment house- thank you for all your help here!

Revised Box Files sent to the manufacturerThe increased depth box art files have been sent to the manufacturer who will be air freighting back a copy of them along with the revised insert for checking in short order.

Hard Copy proofing of all three books and all cards now completeIt is much easier to proofread a hard copy than a digital one. When we sent the Caves and the Sewers hard copy proofs to our proofreader he found stuff that none of us found in the digital proof.  I can understand how frustrating this must be for you, however when our proofreader finds issues in the hard copy I think it is worth the extra delay to make sure you will not have those errors when you receive the game.  I think David has done an incredible job here given he is reviewing three whole books and all the cards.  Here are some examples of the things that were found (and have now been fixed):


Here you can see that although there are three Giant Spiders in the example there are only two piles of Health Tokens rather than three.

In this case the cards are in the wrong order - Squeeze Ascent is drawn in Turn 2 and Bat Colony at the end of Turn 3.

 This one, well I don't think you would have let up really given it says Sewers at the top and Caves in point 4.

And finally this example here is typical of the work that David does for us.  Taking the book and following every instruction to the letter and pointing out that in fact two of those card codes were incorrect.  You would have been able to figure it out for sure (it's why we use card name and card code), however we'd rather get it right from the outset:

Please note there are also a few issues on the cards (incorrect card codes and missing icons in the main).  The only actual graphic design work that came out of the process was based on feedback from UKGE and reviewers around the Readiness Tracker. Several people asked if we could put the thresholds for gaining Alert, Bold etc. on this card, this is being done now (minor tweaks really) and I will share it with you in short order. 

Awaiting revised boxes and rulebooks from manufacturer to sign off.

With the revised box art and rulebooks now back with the manufacturer we await the final versions to be returned to us for checking. We need to check that the boxes continue to look as great as the ones we have shown you so far (if anything they should be slightly better as you will see a smidge more art in one dimension). We also need to check that the boxes do indeed accommodate the sleeved cards (for those that want to sleeve) as per the design.

Manufacturing to complete in 50 days of proof sign off (Estimated 20 October 2018).Assuming the final proof is OK we can proceed to manufacturing which Whatz have confirmed as taking 50 days from sign off. I estimate we can sign off by the end of August and that this will give us a manufactured product date of 20 October 2018.

Fulfilment arranged via Gamesquest in the EU and local partners.We have been doing extensive diligence over the past few months, I have spoken to many backers, other Creators and most importantly have directly met with the management team at Gamesquest. They have given me assurances that they will look after our project and I believe that they are the right partner for us to get the game to you. We are likely to be using QML Logistics in the USA. There may be further local partners used (I will confirm this in due course).

Delivery anticipated by end of December 2018 (based on 20 October Manufactured date).We are told 10 weeks (to be safe) is the correct estimate of shipping from the port at Shanghai - this leads to a year end delivery date for you all.

Distribution and reviewer interestI am delighted to say that we will be in distribution in the UK (as announced before) and we are in the process of signing up further distribution in both Germany and Australia.
There has been a material amount of interest from the reviewer fraternity and I'm sure you shall see some reviews and playthroughs coming up soon (I know a number of you have been asking for playthroughs).
Also please note the first two reviewers we gave the game to both came back and said they thought the Sewers Walkthrough was excellent but that the Caves Walkthrough needed some tweaks.  These tweaks have been made and proofread as part of the process mentioned above.

I can understand that many of you do not want to hear that there is a further delay. I apologise to you but can confirm that every Creator I have spoken to has said that if there are errors that can be fixed at this stage then they would also recommend fixing them now (while we can) before pushing that final manufacturing button.  I would hope that you understand we are doing this to give you the very best game we can.

Best wishes to you and all your families.
IG
 

Last chance to add to your order before lockdown
almost 6 years ago – Tue, Jul 24, 2018 at 07:28:57 PM

Summary:- Proofing of Sewers set and Boosters content is underway.
- Improved insert V2 and V3 have been produced.
- We are locking down the orders on 31 July 2018. This is your last chance to add anything to your order.
- Fulfilment is in the process of being finalised, further details for follow.- Legends Untold is now in distribution in the UK!- To make it simpler for everyone I have included responses to the last few updates below: 

Hi guys - OK here we go:

Proofing of Sewers set and Boosters content is underway.  We are finding minor things which you can notice more easily with a hard copy proofing. To give you an idea of the things that were found on the Caves Set.

P6 of the Rule Book - To maintain consistency with the entries on pp 4 and 5, the subtext for the "3 Plot Cards" and "4 Dice" should start in lower case rather than with a capital letter.

Insert
To get everyone up to speed we are trying to deliver a plastic insert rather than a card one which will give you far better storage for your cards:
V1 of the new insert looked like this:

It worked perfectly for non sleeved cards. However when we sleeved the cards they could not all fit in the box, there was not enough depth to cope with the sleeved cards.
A revised layout to the insert was proposed as such:

I received a photograph of V2 from China last week which accommodated all the cards by length and width but required further depth to be added to accommodate the sleeved cards. You can see the V2 here:

PLEASE NOTE THE CARDS ON THE LEFT WITH THE LIGHTNING BOLTS ARE NOT FOR LEGENDS UNTOLD, THEY WERE SIMPLY TO HAND FOR THE MANUFACTURER TO TAKE A PHOTOGRAPH.

With the spacing now sorted I asked for a further 6mm of depth to accommodate the sleeved single pokers and 12mm of depth to accommodate the sleeved double pokers giving an increased insert and box depth of 18mm.

Here is the photograph of V3 which I received this morning - you can see that everything fits well and should also handle the depth of the sleeved cards. Note the box is white as it is a prototype to accommodate the increased depth.

Please note these are quick photographs take by Whatz, they have not been placed in a lightbox or anything like that:

The next step is to receive a hard copy proof of the V3 inserts and printed boxes with the artwork for Caves and Sewers (these are being sent to China over the next day or so - please note the change to the box will be negligible but it needs to be checked).

When I receive these I can (hopefully) confirm that everything looks good and fits on a sleeved basis.  We can then proceed to push the button on manufacturing.

Address and Order Lock down on 31 July.Please note we are now finally at the stage where we are locking down addresses and orders. If you want any address changes or anything added to your order please get in touch with us immediately.

Fulfilment
We are coming to the end of our discussions on this point, we will be announcing our fulfilment partner shortly. Getting the finalised addresses is essential to closing this out.

Distribution
I am very pleased to confirm that Legends Untold is now on the stock list with Asmodee UK. Only a very small number of indy publishers get into distribution with their debut title, we are delighted to have achieved this and look forward to seeing our game in retailers across the UK. We are in discussions with other distributors across the globe and I hope to have more news on this front in due course.

Responses to comments from previous updates (to avoid lots of searching)

Update #79
Justin Boehm @IG so... how would this giant mat and miniatures work if you wanted to use them with LU? I mean, you move as a group right (or maybe I'm remembering wrong)? Is it something where the location cards would fit on the squares shown on the mat image?

No sorry those mats are basically used if you wanted to 'supersize' your own game of Legends to make the particular room larger or if you wanted to use them for your own RPG or skirmish game. Yes you are correct you move as a group in Legends.

Korric Morgan - Just please retain a focus on short playtime and portability. etc. Understood and agreed. Legends is meant to fill that niche - you want more than a combat oriented dungeon crawler but don’t have time for a full pen and paper RPG. Anything we produce for future expansions will be true to this design ethos.

Bellisarius - Sorry if i missed it but are the A3 game mats available for download or purchase as a file? At that size they are ideal to print and play with. Not at the moment sorry. We are still debating what direction we would go with the game mats, for now our focus is getting the game to everyone - thanks for the interest though!

Update #80
God-keizer - Please post a picture of the box inside with the tokens punched out, how does it look when organized, how is it's usability? Can you easily take the game components out? Is stuff easy to find? Time the set-up time. How long is the tear down and tuck away time and effort? What parts are more prone to wear and tear? What needs reinforcing? I have covered this off via the new insert.

Update #81
 TheSirSpence (is killing me) - I don't suppose that there is any chance the PM could be reopened. I missed it first time round and I get more and more gutted that u am not getting a game with every update. Yes no problem - please message me with what you want and I will add it for you .

Paul Johnson - The insert looks great. I really appreciate the effort you're putting into the game. One question about your new proposal to stack the double size cards on top of the insert and increase the depth of the box though. Won't everything start sliding around and falling out the insert if it's stored on it's side? Normally you can fix this by storing the used punch boards under the insert to raise the level flush with the box lid. But I can't see that working here. Is this something you've already considered / tested? This is a totally valid question Paul. Unsleeved and using the original design I checked this several times and it was not an issue. Using the new design I won’t be able to tell you how much of an issue it is until I have the Insert in my hands with all the tokens. This is definitely the challenge trying to accommodate sleeved, partially sleeved and unsleeved preferences in a small box. I will update you when I know more but there really is nowhere else to store the cards on a sleeved basis.

Fredrik Fregginia - What is the size of the Perceival Guard 83 or 85 by 127mm? Neither, it is an Ultimate Guard sleeve 89x127mm

Can the Mayday Games Tiny Epic Kingdom Sleeves fit the card instead? They are listed as 88x125mm. I think they are likely to be thin (the Ultimate Guard ones are snug) and would be not be long enough - the Ultimate Guard sleeves are too short by a fraction of a mm.

Matthew Guillemette - This is looking really amazing, thanks for all the extra effort for us "Compulsive Sleevers!" I just hope that when your next campaign comes out, you give us the option to grab the other Novice set that we didn't get... I was only able to go in for the Caves set initially, because of the cost conversion between british pounds and Canadian. I expect to go all in on the next campaign...
Thank you! We are still deciding what to do next, after some head bashing we may have a new change of direction from our last stated position. We are still looking at it (working title Project Cornwall) just now, but think our plans may be more in line with what you guys would like to see. In the meantime - if you want to add the Sewers just now please message me ASAP and I can add it for you if that is your wish.

David Purkiss Is it still possible to get the dice? Yes, please message me and let me know how many sets and I can do this for you now before I close out the final order.

Other Comments
J.O. These are some nice fitting sleeves. How many of them do we need for each set?  
For Caves and Sewers you need 33 double poker and 123 single poker sleeves.

Please also note we added in the UKGE Bonus Promo adventure too which is 5 double poker and 3 poker sleeves.

For each Booster you need 2 double poker and 11 single poker sleeves.

Steelbeard issue with the sleeve fitting the card? Specifically, the photo of the Student card in the sleeve does not look as though it fits. There appears to be no clearance at the top of the sleeve, and the card looks like it's poking out to me. We do not manufacture the sleeves. After looking around for a suitable sleeve size these were the ones I was able to source. The double poker cards sit less than 1mm outside the sleeve at the open edge of this particular brand. The insert can accommodate this and more.

OK folks that is it for just now.  I will let you know when I have V3 of the insert so we can try it all out.  In the meantime please note what I was saying about lockdown.

Best wishes to you all from IG.

'It's a wee bit sticky ooty.'
almost 6 years ago – Fri, Jul 06, 2018 at 12:26:30 AM

Hi guys there are a lot of photos in this update - sometimes it is just easier to show you!

Summary:
Caves preproduction copy is unveiled on you tube with Ricky Royal
Sewers hard copy proof received - sent to the proofreader
Booster cards hard copy received - sent to the proofreader
Dragon Dice sample received - approved
Insert sample received - fits non-sleeved perfectly, requires a modification to accommodate sleeving. This should take 2 weeks - which dovetails with the time required to proof the Sewers and boosters.
Shelfie pictures at the bottom showing the depth issue and how you can store your box to begin your Legend.

See the Caves preproduction copy
If you want to see it showed off on video I recommend looking at the Ricky Royal video on YouTube:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P9qOfZVVbQ0

Sewers and Booster set preproduction copies.
These have now been received and have been sent off to the proofreader, this is an important and final step to ensure that this element of the game reaches that same final standard as the Caves copy which has been through that process.


Here is the Sewers box being opened for you:

I was asked about the suitability of the lid for a dice tray, these are 16mm dice:

Note the double pokers are stored on top of the single pokers but in perpendicular fashion:

 And now with the double pokers to one side:

As you can see it all fits. And here is the suggested storage method for the components (though I expect you guys to come up with something more innovative I'm sure):

Dragon Dice Sample received

For those that like your dice we said we would make these:

Well here is how they have turned out:

And a slightly more arty one for you:

 I am delighted with these! They feel great and it is wonderful to deliver something that you asked us for.  These are now ready for final production.

The insert
Our original stated intent was to give you a simple paper insert that would hold the cards, dice and token in two big recesses. It would be nothing special but it would be on a par with what many other mainstream manufacturers provide.

A while back I said that we had a plan and that I wanted to give you something better, that would organise the box contents, protect them and stop everything moving around. Here was the sketch that I provided at the time:

 As you can see it is pretty close to the insert shown above.  The manufacturer was also instructed to make sure that it could accommodate sleeved cards as a number of you have been very explicit on that point.  

As requested at this point I will show two sleeved cards against a dark background so you can see the snugness of the fit:

 OK so the easiest way to show you the problem with the sleeving is as follows:

This picture shows you sleeved and unsleeved side by side - you can see the sleeves still fit by length and width, just as we requested (apologies this picture was at the limits of my new lightbox!:

 However the depth of the sleeved cards has not been accommodated correctly. This is the same set of contents as the picture on the left - it takes up three full recesses rather than two and they are flush with the top of the recess not beneath it.  Importantly this does not show the double pokers either:

 And so if I remove some of the single pokers to accomodate the sleeved double pokers again you can see the height problem:

 SO HOW DO WE FIX THIS?
Well we know that some of you will not sleeve, some of you will only sleeve the draw decks (which get all the use) and some of you intend to sleeve everything.  We said we would try and accomodate everyone and that is what we are trying to do.

I have sketched the following for the manufacturer to look at:

 The idea being to raise the smaller recesses by 5mm to accomodate the sleeved pokers and the edges around the box by 10mm to accomodate two piles of sleeved double pokers.  This would raise the box depth by about 15mm (subject to manufacturing). The manufacturer is already working on this (or a workable alternative to this) right now and will send back the revised insert within two weeks.

Please note it will take us this amount of time to properly proof the Sewers and Boosters sets in any event.

This sketch is based on the following mock up where it was clear that everything could fit on a sleeved basis but that further height was required.  Please note the double pokers are split into two sleeved piles to reduce the box height and improve stability/distribution.

 
Shelfie
OK this is a bit of fun but it also demonstrates the current issue with the box depth if you sleeve the cards - it is just slightly too shallow. You can see the lid is lifting off the box because of the contents, in Scottish parlance and to quote Dave W 'It's a wee bit sticky ooty.'

We will fix this for you folks.  In the meantime I thought you may like to see the two boxes side by side (we have tried to align artwork to give you a lovely view whatever orientation you choose):

Heroic filing (vertical):

 Acrobatic heroic filing (double vertical)  - I have included a scale to help.

 Monster filing (smallest end down):

 Young pup filing (note the two youngest creatures of each environment - i.e. horizontal): 

Please note Warhammer Conquest was to hand, and is an excellent scale proxy for this picture - I anticipate the box needs to increase in size to the same depth as the Warhammer Conquest box but it still retains the same footprint in the other dimensions. I will of course confirm more when I hear back from the manufacturer. 

OK folks that is all for now.
I wish you and your families all the very best until the next time.

Best wishes from all at IG.

High quality photos
almost 6 years ago – Sun, Jun 17, 2018 at 11:57:24 PM

 Hi guys wanted to add up some high quality photographs kindly taken by Mark.

The Caves set has now been through hard copy proofing. I am waiting to hear from the manufacturer tomorrow on the Sewers proof copy. I should also know now more about the insert and Dragon dice next week too.

At this point I am told we are still on target for delivery in October.

I am keeping this super brief as it is Fathers Day in the UK.

Best wishes

IG